I thought it might be interesting to post a reply to Nevin’s latest comment to my last post.
nevin wrote, “You have misread my comment.”
No I did not.
nevin wrote, “Polygamy is illegal under the woman's charter and only legal under the Administration of the Muslim Law Act (for muslim men). This point was already stated in my original comment and is not a mistake of law. My facts are correct.”
No, your facts are incorrect according to the context of my post. My post concluded, “If they insist that the law must not interfere with personal sexual choices and activities, then the logical conclusion from such premises would be the repeal of laws criminalizing incest and polygamy.” So, in order for you gays to be consistent with your “gay logic” - logic is not used as a complimentary term here - you should not ONLY lobby for the repeal of s377a, but also for all other laws in Singapore that criminalize incest and polygamy for ALL Singaporeans.
nevin wrote, “I am not, contrary to your misrepresentation, arguing for polygamy.”
I never said that ... contrary to your misrepresentation. What I did say was, “In order for you gays to be consistent with your “gay logic” - logic is not used as a complimentary term here - you should not ONLY lobby for the repeal of s377a, but also for all other laws in Singapore that criminalize incest and polygamy for ALL Singaporeans.” I also said in my previous comment, “Delightfully, “gay logic” should allow Singaporeans to practice incest and polygamy based upon premises 1 and 2.” If you did not read my post carefully, do it now.
nevin wrote, “Although your point that polygamy was once commonplace but is now not acceptable is an implicit concession that social norms are not immutable.”
Once again, this is faulty reasoning on your part. What I wrote was, “Finally, polygamous marriages were common all over Asia. Monogamy marriages is a western concept, introduced in Singapore after 1965 and in China by the communist in l953.”
Is this another one of your red herrings? Social norms did change, and it is different in different cultures. Some tribes in Asia and Africa practiced headhunting. I’m glad that changed. Some cultures practiced incest. I’m glad that changed. But what has “social norms [being not] immutable” got to do with your “gay logic?” Again, in order for you gays to be consistent with your “gay logic” - logic is not used as a complimentary term here - you should not ONLY lobby for the repeal of s377a, but also for all other laws in Singapore that criminalize incest and polygamy for ALL Singaporeans.
Furthermore, what has “social norms” to do with what is right and wrong i.e. morality and ethics?
If you argue that “morals are mores,” that is, moral commands are considered community demands, this view would imply a cultural relativity of morality.
As I had written elsewhere before, this view of morality commits the “is-ought” fallacy (Hume). Just because something is the practice does not mean it ought to be. It is the case that people are cruel at times; they hate and kill. This in no way means that ought to be the case. Likewise, even if the entire community in a certain village has a preference for same-sex rectal intercourse, this does not mean that ought to be the case.
Secondly, if each community is right according to their moral view, then there is no way to solve conflicts between communities and nations. Whatever each one believes is right – even if it means the annihilation of each other – is right.
Thirdly, we must ultimately seek that which is right (i.e. the truth, or the universal moral law, or the natural law, or that which is right in itself). Murder cannot be both right and wrong. A tribe might consider the hunting of humans as fun, and the right thing to do. That is the moral “right” in that tribe. Singapore thinks that hunting humans for their heads is murder, which is wrong. If you claim that one group’s moral stand is right, and the other wrong, what moral standards are you subjecting yourself to?
nevin wrote, “Lastly, the comment about "gay logic" is itself illogical. Logic either makes sense or it does not, and the central issue here is that the state should be slow to intervene in private, consensual acts.”
I’m glad you realize this. The central issue here is that the state should be SLOW to intervene in private, consensual acts. But this does not mean that the state should NOT intervene in private, consensual acts.
So you do agree with me that the state SHOULD intervene in private, consensual acts like same-sex sodomy? Oh yes, the state should do it slowly e.g. moral police creeping up slowly behind you, and subsequently bringing you slowly up to the criminal court, and speaking to you slowly in court, and of course, bringing you slowly to jail. Is that slow enough for you?
The central issue here is that the state should be slow to intervene in private, consensual acts, but the state should nevertheless intervene in private, consensual acts like incest, homosexual sodomy and polygamy.
Finally, the term “gay logic” is not illogical. It is an oxymoron. This is because gay arguments are illogical. I’m glad you get that.